How To Build a Reduction Roadmap (with Mikkel Boe Petersen)

Below is a transcript of our discussion with Mikkel Boe Petersen, CSR coordinator at Danish design company UMAGE.

We recorded this discussion as part of our Sustainable by Design podcast.

In this episode, we discussed how Mikkel contributed to building UMAGE’s CSR roadmap.

For a starter, could you tell us a bit about your company? And maybe we can start with the name because it sounds so Danish. What does it mean?

So we're a design company. We started with lamps in 2008 and then introduced furniture in 2018. We are around 40 employees with colleagues in both Denmark, primarily in Denmark where our headquarters are located, and also in the US and Germany and Asia.

So we're a bit all over, you can say. And the name itself started off as something called Vita Copenhagen and then later on changed to what we have named ourselves now, UMAGE, which is a Danish expression of making an effort because that's what we believe that we're trying to do every day in our work.

And yourself, when did you join UMAGE and what's your background?

I started around four years ago when I was in my last year of university doing my master's in diversity and change management. And I started as a student worker. And then once I was about to finish my master's or graduate, I was offered this position as CSR coordinator, which was the first position within the company. So it was a very exciting opportunity for me to also be able to learn about the businesses and get a firsthand experience on this exciting topic that is sustainability.

What kind of situation did you find when you started working on CSR at UMAGE? Was it a new topic? Was it a topic that was already mature within the company?

You can say that it's something that we see as part of our DNA, in a sense.

All of our designs are multifunctional, they're flexible, and we're working on continuously improving them, both with feedback from our customers, but also from our suppliers.

And we've had various initiatives throughout the lifespan of UMAGE. So all of our designs are flat-packed to the extent possible, which means that customers are assembling the furniture and the lamps themselves. And this has different opportunities in terms of the design because you can interchange certain elements of the design. So if you have a lounge chair, for instance, you can change the cushions so that you can get a new look or a new style in your living room or living space. And you don't have to change the whole product.

Sounds great. So it sounds like sustainability was already taken into account in the design phase. And I guess your role was to coordinate all these initiatives and, I guess, maybe try new things on top of what was already done?

Yeah, we saw an opportunity both from the customers in terms of the demand from their side. You could also argue that the legislation from the EU, in particular, for instance, the CSRD, made way for this position, because right now we can see an increase in customer demands, both in terms of sustainability in general, but also in terms of data that we are able to provide our customers, because they have to report.

I'm curious to understand this a bit more into details, because when you go to furniture trade shows, you have various feedbacks. Some companies tell you, at the moment, customers don't really care about sustainability or they don't want to pay a premium for sustainable products. And I'm curious to understand what kind of feedback you got from clients. Was it B2B clients or B2C clients?

I think you could argue that it's a mix of both. One thing is that sustainability has been part of our DNA throughout the lifespan of the company and continuously.

Another thing is that we've had all these different initiatives. For every wooden furniture or wooden product that we sell, we collaborate with an NGO to plant trees. We're, in that sense, trying to give back.

For us, it was also to sort and categorize all of our initiatives so that we're able to reply to customer demands and also live up to legislation. But the position is a result of the DNA that we have because it makes sense to us.

And when you joined the company, did you have any kind of benchmark or inspiration to guide your approach? What kind of foundations did you have to help you bring things to the next level in terms of sustainability at UMAGE?

Well, I think since it's a new position that I took up a little over three years ago, you could say that there's a lot of figuring out what the role is and how to approach various tasks because you don't always know what the tasks are.

And once you start with one task, then you soon realize that there are 20 other tasks that perhaps need more attention right now because you're simply not ready to complete the task that you're working on or started on.

So we were looking at different competitors in our field and our market to see how they approach this topic and what are they doing. We've looked at different sustainability reports from both competitors, but also other companies that are roughly on the same size, both in terms of employees or financial wise.

And then we've also looked at companies that we see as better than ourselves in this field to see, okay, what are they doing and how can we perhaps get inspired by their approach and how can we then take ourselves to the next level?

Did you get any external help as well from, I don't know, trade associations or maybe consultants? Or did you have to figure out everything yourself?

We did get some external help from a consultant. Initially, we started off with wanting to do LCA calculations on our products. And it was with that mindset and with that task in mind that we approached different consultants.

And then we got a hold of one and he was like, "I think it's great that you want to do LCA calculations, but have you also considered ABC or have you also considered these other areas?" Because he argued that if we went straight into LCA calculation, then we would also leave ourselves open to other questions and we needed to make sure that we were able to reply and defend those questions if they ever arose.

So we ended up starting elsewhere and taking a step back because the LCA calculation in itself is very data-heavy and a lot of data is required to be able to complete these.

We went back and looked in our supply chain and we looked for our customers. And then the roadmap that we ended up getting was a topic of four areas that were interesting to us.

And that was the responsible supply chain, people in our value chain, climate, and then lastly, communication.

Mikkel, that's super interesting. And I think you mentioned one thing that already can be a hurdle for some companies, which is how do you find the areas where you need to focus your efforts? And I'm curious to understand how you picked these four areas of focus. Was it something that you brainstormed internally that was suggested by clients or how did you come up with this?

Yeah, so working closely together with the external consultants, we conducted a workshop with our management group and then internally discussed various areas that were relevant to us and what we wanted to focus on in terms of sustainability. And the end result of this was the four topics. And then each topic has different tasks to be completed underneath. And that could be, for instance, various certifications that were relevant either to the product or to UMAGE as a whole company. And then we've slowly approached these tasks and prioritized them in a way that makes them more tangible.

And do you remember what kind of questions you had to answer to understand what was required from UMAGE to make some progress?

Yeah, I mean, we had some questions to the external consultant who was very engaged with us. And he obviously also had some knowledge from other companies that he's worked with that he brought into question. And then he helped us stay focused and figure out the topics and the questions.

So I think it's a great option to have external consultants like that, especially when it's the early days or like when you're maybe hiring a full-time position. And it's a new step in your sustainability journey. And I think it's particularly relevant to bring external expertise to have this experience and be able to ask the right questions and derive a roadmap from it.

Definitely. Also, because when you start off with a new position, then you quickly can fumble in the dark because which direction do you go? How do you approach it? And then I guess sustainability in general is a very not vague topic for most people. But if you don't work with it directly, then it's difficult to grasp how huge of a topic this actually is and how many directions you can go in.

I've been speaking to sustainability coordinators for the past year, and some people I talked to were just overwhelmed. So I love it when you say “we picked the four areas where we wanted to focus our attention and we elaborated this step-by-step roadmap”. I think it's just a great way to avoid being stuck in the process. Speaking of steps, I'm curious. So you started with these areas of focus. What came next?

So the consultant had experience with a certification called B Corp. We found it due to the difficulty in figuring out where to start and in which direction to go. We found out that doing the B Impact Assessment, so the questionnaire from B Corp, actually helped us also prioritizing some focus areas because it looks at your company structure, the governance of the company, what policies do you have in place, what practices pertaining to the mission, the ethics, the accountability and transparency of the company. It looks at your workers internally and how the company contributes to the employees' financial, physical, professional and social well-being. It looks at the community, so how the company can contribute to the economic and social well-being of the communities in which they operate. And then it takes the environment into perspective, so what impact do we have as a company on the environment? And then lastly, the customers, what value do we create for the customer?

So we went through this B Impact Assessment and then we found out, okay, this is the direction that we want to go. It's a heavy process, you can say, a lot of questions, but also an eye-opener to a lot because we can have a self-image and then it can be either corroborated or declined by the result of the questionnaire because you get a point score.

And can you correct me if I'm wrong, but this is something that is free, right?

This audit phase, this questionnaire is 100% free. This is something that any company can do, even if they don't really want to become B Corp certified in the end.

I guess it's a huge time investment, but it's not a financial investment, at least in the beginning, right?

No, it's not until you apply or submit the application. All up until that point, it's completely free. And it also takes into consideration your company size in terms of your employees, the headcount and also your market.

And do you remember if at the time there was anything that surprised you or that was new for the company, maybe something that was overlooked up until the questionnaire from B Corp?

There was definitely a realization of there's only so much you can do in Excel. So figuring out how to get either a platform or software or some sort of help, both in terms of data handling and data collection, and then at the same time also have it scalable. Because, yeah, hopefully your company will grow and from that point you will need more data, more specific data. And if you're not prepared to handle that data in a certain way, then it gets difficult.

It's interesting. You told me that initially you started your sustainability journey asking about LCA and then the consultant told you LCA is not the first step you have maybe to do this questionnaire, find your areas of focus, do the B Corp assessment. But then it sounds like you came back to LCA or did I misinterpret what you said?

No, we have turned our focus a bit back on LCA, but also I would say narrowed it down to start off with a few products.

Because once we started, or once I started talking to suppliers, it's also a huge task for them to be able to collect this data that is needed and then prepare it for you and then send it in a format that actually makes sense and that you can use. So there's a lot of back and forth. And if we started with all of our products at the same time, then I would be drowning.

It's a great idea to start with a sample of products. How did you pick the products that you started with? What were the criteria?

So we picked the products based on the top sellers and then also looking at which supplier they're produced and how long we've worked with the supplier. Because it's somewhat easier to go to a supplier where you have history, and you've been collaborating for years and years, and they're also interested in developing this partnership. That was at least our experience.

And what kind of reactions did you get from the suppliers?

Before the LCAs, I started off by sending out a survey just to gather some factual data from the supplier. It ranged from financial information to where they're located, how many production facilities they have, a bit about their sub-suppliers, also a bit about other sales channels that they have, of course, what materials and how their processes are when producing, and then towards the CSR relevant questions about, do you have any certifications? For instance, BSCI, FSC, RDS, all of those certifications.

That was our way of trying to create the supplier mapping. And then from this, it's not something that they just were clapping about to have to fill out. I would also say that they were very supportive of it and they finished it. It was a great help and a good start to be able to move along, move forward.

If I were to start this process myself today, what kind of tips would you give me?

I think the process with suppliers, if you don't have direct contact with them regularly, then team up with a co-worker who does have regular contact with them, also so that you're not a complete stranger asking for a lot of data out of the blue.

In my case, it was my colleague in sourcing who was also a part of this and he broke the ice, you can say, that we wanted to focus more about our partnership or develop our partnerships. For this, we would need a lot of data, so they would be receiving a survey that we would very much appreciate if they could fill out for us.

Most of them did. For this, we also started with a small sample and then moved up to include more companies or suppliers.

If we fast-forward to today, what does this project look like at the moment? Have you been able to collect more data? I'm curious to understand how you use this data. What were the takeaways for the company?

There are, I would say, two legs to this.

We've continued working with the external consultant that we used because we found it was a good match and very helpful to us. We have done some investing in terms of platforms or software that can help us with the data collection and gathering. I have been so lucky to get some further education in the field. I completed a mini MBA in sustainability management last year because that was also a good way to get to know a lot of different ways and areas in the field of sustainability. Then we've submitted our B Corp application, so that's what I'm currently working on, going back and forth and providing data to verify our answers.

The other leg is the LCAs, which we've returned to. We're working with different softwares to help both collect the data but also do the actual calculations that are needed.

That sounds great. It's something that very often people who are not involved in sustainability don't understand, is that to be successful with your plan and your analysis, you also need some kind of software, be it an ERP or a PLM, to just store the data that you collected. I'm curious, how did you handle that project? Did you have something in place already and you just added the data to what you had? Or did you have to set up new software from scratch?

We have our ERP system, which contains a lot of data on the product. But we also went for a more traditional PIM system to be able to handle even more data. We can keep it up to date and we can align every data flow that we have, rather than having different Excel files.

For anyone who's ever looked at these Excel files, this sounds like a dream. Because usually, these files are different from one supplier to the other. So it's great that you have the data gathered in one system where it's structured and tailored to your own needs.

Exactly. And also the fact that if you're working on an Excel file and then you save it locally and then your co-worker does the same, and then which version is then the correct one, it's a challenge. And now we're aligning our data in a much more structured way.

It sounds like you're starting to get more and more data about your products, suppliers. Did it have any kind of impact on your action plan? Was there anything obvious that came out of this analysis in terms of actions for the company?

In some cases, we also got FSC certified back in November or October last year, because we saw that we have a lot of wooden products. All of our furniture is made from wood. So that one just made sense. And then we looked into what does it take to go through the audit and then the audit itself. Also, just get going to start somewhere because there's always a task at hand. And if you know how to approach it, then perfect. If not, you can start elsewhere. And then one task always leads to another, you can say.

It's a more personal question, but what is, in your opinion, the thing you're the proudest about that you've implemented since you joined UMAGE?

I think it was to prepare the B Corp certification for submission, because there are some questions that require a lot of calculations. And then also having to figure out, "Okay, who do I contact for this type of question when I need to verify it or upload documentation to corroborate the answer?" And then the main learning you can say is that this is a process. And expecting quick results, I think, is difficult, because you are very dependent on a lot of colleagues, both internally, but also with suppliers.

And then there is, of course, the EU that comes with new legislation and a new direction and new things to be aware of. And a lot of things are happening right now. So predicting the future is difficult, borderline impossible.

So right now, it's not a lot of guesswork, but it is difficult to be certain of the direction that you're going.

And regarding the B Corp certification, if some people want to get involved in the same process, can you give us an idea of how much time it requires, like from starting the audit to getting certified? And are you certified already, or are you still waiting for the results?

We're not certified yet. We're right now in the verification process, in the very beginning of it. So right now, I'm uploading documentation for our questions.

I would say we started working with the B Impact Assessment shortly after the external consultant introduced us to B Corp. And then it's been a journey, in a way, to get the result and then see, "Okay, are there any low-hanging fruits that we can implement to be able to improve our score?"

That could be an employee handbook or having set rules for your suppliers when you're looking for new suppliers, for instance. Set requirements for them for yourself as well, because this is a two-way street. And then just taking it slowly from there, because it is a process.

It's not a process where you can predict how much time it will take, because from what I hear from you, you don't even know what it will require changing in your company. So I guess it's very difficult to anticipate how much time it would take to get certified.

Yeah. We started working on it, I think, in '22. So we were around one and a half, two years in the process with just the application itself.

And now I think the rule of thumb is that there is a waiting list or a waiting queue for the actual process to begin with the verification and evaluation. Hopefully within the year, then we're through.

So lots of takeaways from being patient, focusing on the data, having the right data collecting process, but also just relying on the B Corp assessment process to find improvements. That's so interesting.

As a closing question, Mikkel, do you have any final tip or recommendations to share with our listeners?

I would say you would need a close collaboration with management, because without the buy-in of the management, then it's a very difficult task. You'd need to regularly provide updates on the process because you quickly forget how vast of a topic this actually is. And then align expectations with management again, because then it's also easier for you to be able to know the direction that you're heading in and you can work on it in a way that makes sense for you.

‍